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I interviewed Eric Edge, PE, CFM, a Civil Engineer and Project Manager who pursued greener pastures (or in his case, snowy slopes) in a move from the California beaches to the foothills of the Rocky Mountains in Denver, Colorado.
In this interview, I asked him 11 questions about his career and how the move had a positive impact on his life. Here is his story.
The Interview
Can you please briefly describe your educational background, including what you studied and what got you interested in engineering?
I went to public high school in California, got relatively decent grades, but ended up going the junior college route. Not wanting to commit to the cost and the time of going straight to university, I ended up transferring from junior college to Long Beach State, a California state school. It’s a relatively cheap public institution that allowed me to graduate with 18 grand in student loans. Much of that was really based upon cost of living versus cost of tuition, as tuition is pretty cheap for in-state students.
What got me interested in engineering is kind of a funny discussion I had with my dad. He asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I said I didn't want to be poor and I didn't want to have to work all the time. And from there, we just kind of backed it into. “All right, well, you get relatively good grades in math and science, so let's consider a STEM career.” And then there was my affinity for lakes, rivers, and especially the ocean. Growing up near coastal California, water resource engineering just really seemed like a good way to go. And I feel as though I'm relatively uncommon in the sense that what I chose to do really back as a sophomore in high school is what I'm doing now, and I really enjoy it.
"Don’t let complacency and the comforts of familiarity prevent you from living a potentially much richer life." – Eric
How long were you working in California after you graduated before you decided to move?
I graduated from Long Beach State and kept moving south. I ended up in North County, San Diego, and I worked there for about five years before I just made the decision; that even as a licensed civil engineer and a certified floodplain manager, that I wasn't going to be able to meet the life goals that I had living in coastal California. And the idea of moving inland to find more opportunities to accomplish my life goals, to me, sort of negated the benefits of living on the coast. And I've always just been a person that's open to moving around and exploring new opportunities.
What specific career opportunities in Colorado attracted you to the state that you felt weren't available in California?
So it wasn't really specific career opportunities in the sense that being a civil engineer, especially in stormwater, given the increases in regulation and the increases in just development, most of the easy developed areas are developed. So developments are moving more and more, encroaching into areas that had major flood issues. And the complexities of that really abound in a lot of places.
But specifically, I was heavily recruited to come out to the Denver metro area. And when I looked at the balance between cost of living, the ability to get outside and enjoy a lot of the hobbies that I love, and being heavily recruited because of the competitive nature of the engineering market in Colorado, this is what essentially mitigated the issues that I was having in San Diego.
I lost the ocean and I lost really good Mexican food, but all of the other things that I enjoy doing, backpacking, fishing, and picking up snowboarding; all those things were available in Colorado. And that cost of living balance really just dramatically shifted in an extreme way.
That's fair. So, to recap, there wasn't necessarily a specific career opportunity. What attracted you to the state was that due to the competitive nature of the pay and the opportunities for increasing your overall life-happiness really helped you solidify that decision. Right?
Yeah. My first five years were all about the grind and trying to make myself more marketable and move up in my company. And after about five years, I stopped and thought, “Well, I think having gone through, all the way through high school, college, the first five years of my career, it's all been about that grind. And at that point in my life, it was, well, “What about now?” What about hereafter? What do I really want?” And after I started to realize that I wasn't going to be able to get those things in, I can't remember, but it's like the 7th most expensive zip code in the country or something like that where I was living, it just wasn't going to happen. So I needed to make a change.
How did the job search process differ between the two states and what resources did you use to find your first job there?
So my first job right out of college, I was heavily investing myself in professional organizations. I was very involved in the American Society of civil Engineers while at university, and that really led to me getting my job. And at that time, it seemed extremely competitive to find the job that you wanted straight out of school. It's really, “who do you know and what's your network?” And that's absolutely what got me my first job and happened to get me my first job at a company I really wanted to work for. Think of your number one school that you want to go to. It was my number one job that I wanted, and it wasn't really in the place that I was expecting, but the place that called me up for an interview happened to be even better.
Regarding the process of coming out to Colorado: I had taken some time off, essentially just quit my job, packed up all my stuff into a storage unit, and just wanted to live life for a while. I did a lot of traveling, and then during those travels, it was essentially anytime I turned my phone on and would look at LinkedIn, I'd have a ton of messages from recruiters. And it was almost to the point where I'd consider it aggressive, where I'd say, I don't really know where I'm going. I don't really know when I'm going to be there. I'm really just taking some time to enjoy life.
And I even had a job offer from a company where I said, I don't even know when I'm going to be available to work. And they essentially pressured me into signing an offer before heading out on a trip. I ended up rescinding my acceptance.
And that was a position in California, in a location that didn't solve any of my issues as far as cost of living and compensation. It was an increase in compensation, but still not to the point where I could meet those basic life goals that I had. And after discussions with recruiters, it was apparent that Denver became a hotspot. And the people that I'd met during my travels said Denver's great. It's growing. There's a lot of young, educated professionals. They have all the professional sports teams. They're an hour away from amazing ski resorts in the mountains and a central hub in the country where you can easily travel to anywhere else.
I narrowed it down to a few places. And as I started to wrap up my travels, I ended up going out to Denver, interviewing at a few places. And it was like, “When can you start?” And, “How much money do you want?” And that's essentially how it was for me, which was a stark contrast to southern California, where people will accept a pay cut just to live near the beach.
Did your salary/compensation package change significantly with the move? If so, how did you evaluate the trade-off with cost of living differences?
Yeah, I would say at that time, five years into my career, I was probably underpaid based upon the value that I was bringing to my company. And with that, I was living paycheck to paycheck as a licensed civil engineer and certified floodplain manager, two credentials that I think would at least warrant somebody a lifestyle that would allow you to save for retirement and own a home. Those things were just off the table, essentially. And I recall the moment where my roommate at the time had moved out, and I was sitting there looking on Craigslist to try to find roommates and just thought to myself, I'm five years into my career. I have all these credentials, and I'm living paycheck to paycheck, relying on Craigslist roommates.
This just isn't what I wanted, and it was not sustainable. And I certainly could have perpetuated that lifestyle to live near the ocean, but it just wasn't a priority for me over those other longer term goals. So my salary and compensation package dramatically changed. As I said, essentially, companies were like, “How much do you want?” And, “When can you start? Because we're dying out here.”
And I went with a number that I thought was almost unethically high, expecting them to counteroffer something lower. And they just essentially said, “Cool!” And that was a shock to me, having tried to negotiate my salary to get to a point where I could sustain living in or maintain my position in southern California. But to start to actually make some positive moves toward my future, it just, it never happened. So it was a stark contrast. The cost of living here in Denver certainly dramatically increased over the last few years, as it has in a lot of places. But I was able to buy a home and max out my retirement accounts, things that I just couldn't have considered doing in Southern California without additional concessions on quality of life.
Have you found the industry culture within Colorado's civil engineering scene to be different?
In Southern California, I found as though there was the older generation that was very set in their ways and then the younger generation that was just doing whatever they could to survive. Whereas in Colorado, it seems as though there's that strong presence of young, driven professionals, but that are working really hard to enjoy their lifestyles versus working really hard to just get by. So I don't really know if I've noticed a difference in the industry culture, specifically, but more of the social and overall culture having an impact on my industry.
Do you feel that your professional network and growth opportunities have been impacted by the move and if so, positive, negative, or a mix?
So we'll start with growth opportunities. Growth opportunities abound. It's really whatever you're willing to put in, you'll get out. And I don't know if that's really a change in location more than just there are not enough civil engineers, so those that step up are offered those opportunities.
But again, going back to California, I was essentially getting a promotion every year, and raises regularly. It just wasn't to the extent that it was supporting a lifestyle that I could sustain. So growth opportunities here after Imade the move, I went from essentially like a lower project engineer to almost being the one that was running, alongside another management level staff, an entire group. Which, looking back, probably wasn't the best thing for my career progression. It was almost like too big of a jump, but speaks to the opportunities that abound where there's a dramatic deviation between how many engineers are needed and how many there actually are in the market pool.
In Southern California, I didn't feel as though there was as big of a discrepancy between supply and demand in that regard. Whereas every firm that I've worked for out here has struggled to hire enough staff.
And then on the professional network side, COVID was a big issue. I moved out here and was working at a firm and really just trying to get my legs underneath me after taking some time off and being in a new area and working under new criteria and new methodologies… and then COVID hit. So it was like, all right, well, I met everyone in that specific firm that I worked for, but didn't really have opportunities to network, be a part of ASCE or the stormwater professional organization that's out here. So that definitely put a hamper on a lot of my professional networking opportunities. However, in the last couple of years, I've really been able to expand that professional network, and a lot of that has been through project collaboration among stakeholders.
Can you share some practical tips for finding housing and settling in after moving to a new state, especially for engineers?
I think my transition was a little uncommon in the sense that I was essentially living out of my backpack for ten months. When I moved, I drove my car out, and looked for a place that was near my office. I felt as though if I find a place that's close to work, I may have to drive further to fun things, but at least I'm not having to commute to fun stuff and to work stuff. I'll find a place close to work, figure out where the heck I am, what I'm doing, how to function in this new place and go from there.
It's pretty difficult to find places that offer short term leases, but I signed a one year lease at an apartment complex that was a few blocks from my office. I figured I could ride my bike if I wanted to. The difference in going from southern California, a place with fantastic weather, to a place that has this stuff called snow was new to me. I wanted to make sure that driving in weather and even just getting used to a new place wasn't going to be a huge stressor on me. So that was where my head was at. And I would certainly recommend that if you're moving somewhere, you want to get set professionally and financially. Save yourself a commute and just live close to your new job.
If you do have people that you know you're going to hang out with all the time, maybe try to live close to them, but figure out where you can live that's going to limit the transition shock for you as much as you can. And for me, that was to pick a spot close to work.
Looking back, was there anything you wish you had known or prepared for better before making the move?
I figured for the most part, water goes downhill, stormwater design is the same everywhere, but the manner in which hydrology is performed out here is different. So essentially the practice of my profession was rather different. And I think going back, I maybe would have asked some more of those questions in the interview process. And then to that point, anytime somebody offers you a salary that seems high, just think about that and how that's going to impact your work life balance. There’s a reason they’re going to pay you and it likely means a ton of responsibility.
The company that I ended up working for, they needed help and they were willing to pay for it, but that resulted in extremely long hours for me and a lot of responsibility that I would say took away from my personal experience of having moved out here. And then I just had the unlucky circumstance of essentially being a workaholic for six months, decided that wasn't really for me, tried to find some balance, and then COVID hit. But yeah, I think it applies to all jobs. If you're looking at making a job change, just get a good feeling for what your responsibilities are, what the expectations on the work life balance is going to be.
What advice would you give to a civil engineer who is hesitant about leaving their established career and network in California or another state for a new opportunity elsewhere?
What do you want five years from now? What do you want ten years from now? It sounds a little bit cliche, but if you want to own a home, maybe you don't like the cold weather. Maybe you want to move somewhere warmer and the cost of living increase is worth it. So move to California or to stay in California. Think about things beyond really just your career, because over the long term, those are going to be hugely impactful for you.
Additionally, I would say if you haven't traveled or if you don't know what else is out there, the world is a huge place, and you might like where you're living now. But if you have an opportunity to increase your quality of life, and that means making a change, make that change.
Think outside the box a little bit and just try to look beyond your job right now. Look beyond your company right now. Look at where markets are increasing. Certainly I think a lot of the discussions over the economy are always very dire and very pessimistic. But if there's a booming industry like there is, especially has been here in the Denver metro area, that just means that you can solidify yourself as an expert in that booming area and know with that bigger picture mindset, set yourself up for really long term success.
I went from being unable to retire, afford a home, etc. to really being able to have an intentional plan of how long I want my career to last. And not just how long I want my career to last, but being able to make decisions and do things that I want to do versus having to do just to make ends meet. So certainly everybody's reasoning for changing states or changing jobs isn't always financial, but to me, it certainly was a huge component of it and was definitely the catalyst in my search. But then also, what do you like to do?
Perfect weather all the time is cool, but I can tell you the feeling that I now get when the leaves start changing, it's awesome. Or the first time you get a snowfall and you pull out your snowboard and you wax it up, get ready for the season. And then comes springtime, when you're just tired of the cold and you start getting more daylight. Those changes in your life give you those experiences that you would just never have if you're complacent in the lifestyle that you have today. Also, I can always go back. I don't think I would, but you can always go back if you make a change.
Your career is a huge part of who you are. And I certainly think of myself as being a civil engineer, it’s part of who I am. It's part of my identity, but it's not the whole picture. And don't just consider that small part of who you are when you're looking at where you're going to live, because where you're going to live is more a part of you than just your career. But your career and moving within that career can provide opportunities for just a fuller, richer life. Don’t let complacency and the comforts of familiarity prevent you from living a potentially much richer life.
Want to Learn More?
Feel free to reach out to Eric directly if you want to ask him about his experience. https://www.linkedin.com/in/eedge-pe-cfm/